Gary Sewell 3rd and final interview

NORFOLK POLICE HEADQUARTERS STATION
NAME: GARY WILLIAM SEWELL
ADDRESS:
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 23 11011968
OCCUPATION: ENVIROMENTAL SERVICE TECHNICIAN

Who states: - This statement consisting of pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.
DATED:
(SIGNED)
PERSON INTERVIEWED: GARY WILLIAM SEWELL
PLACE OF INTERVIEW: KING’S LYNN POLICE STATION
DATE OF INTERVIEW: 3RD MARCH 1991
TIME COMMENCED: 08.49
TIME CONCLUDED: 09.05
INTERVIEWING OFFICER: D.S. NEWTON
OTHER PERSON(S) PRESENT: D.C FROST
Q:
You don't not have to say anything unless you wish to do so but what you say may be given in evidence. Do you understand that?
R:
Yes
Q:
Are you happy being interviewed without your solicitor being present at this stage?
R.
Yes, anything to help out.
Q:
O.K., now I'll tell you, I did speak to your solicitor this morning and he said if you are happy to be interviewed he is, but if you want him here he is more than willing to turn up. You are happy to be interviewed without him being here?
R:
Yep.
Q:
Yes?
R:
Yes.
Q:
And there just the three of us in this room?
R:
Yes, that is correct.
Q:
O.k., right, I just want to clarify a couple of points, have you remembered anything more from our last interview?
R:
Yer, there's I think there's a...might been a few more people up on top of the stairs and I think there’s a bloke with Carl on the stairs or in the
Cellar Bar, and it’s possible that one of the people who were sort of kicking Tony....had, brown, er kick brown sort of kick boots on.
Q.
So brown kicker boots, they're sort of soft leather boots aren't they?
R:
Yer, I think....
Q: You're talking about a specific make of boot?
R:
Well I... I always call em kicker boots... that’s just what I think they’re called.
Q:
Describe the best you can what you think a kicker boot is.
R: Like a mountain boot, but like in a casual way, you know what I mean.... like a climbing boot.
Q;
Are they lace up boots or...?
R
Yer, lace up.
Q:
And what colour are we talking about?
R:
Sort of light brown I think.
Q: Tan?
R: Tan, yer.
2.28
Q:
How far up the leg do they go?
R:
About three....three, up to here, about top of the ankle.
Q;
Top of the ankle bone, yer.
R:
Yer.
Q:
And you feel that one of them was wearing, one of the attackers were wearing a pair of kicker boots?
R:
Yer, I feel that…
Q:
Do you remember err which one, was it the one doing the talking?
R:
Err, I don't know, all I can sort of see a sort of picture of him kicking, I picture a pair of then boots.
Q:
At what stage do you remember that they were kicker boots, I mean was it when you first saw these attackers or was it later on or what?
3.05
R:
No, when….when another person was brought into the cell, I sort of looked at him from the cell window and I see them boots that was sort of....
Q:
You're not saying they're those particular boots..,,
R:
No, I not saying...
Q:
They, were very...ident...virtually identical to those that you had seen?
R:
Yer, jogged my memory, know what I mean?
Q:
You're not saying that those particular boots though that you saw through your cell window?
3.27
R:
No I'm not saying they are the particular boots. But you know when you see something that jog the memory a bit like.
Q:
That's right, that's very true.
R:
Yer.
Q:
And you're thinking about the... you said you at one stage, I think it was in first interview, you feel that these lads that attacked Tony were wearing jeans?
R:
Yer.
Q:
Were they sort of tight fitting jeans, baggy jeans, bell bottoms, whatever the women call the them?
3.54
R:
I think they were just probably just casual fit.
Q:
Cause I mean a lot of lads around town, especially those into the House Music have baggy, really baggy jeans on, was it anything like that?
R:
No, definitely not House music type of people.
Q:
Just a normal fit jean you feel?
R:
Yeah, sort of casual wear.
Q:
Were they frayed at the ends or...?
R:
No, (mumbles)
Q:
Sorry?
4.18
R: No.
Q:
No they weren't or no you can't remember?
R:
Can't remember. No.
Q:
Did you notice did you notice a belt at all?
R:
No.
Q:
Were any of them wearing a jacket?
R:
(Sighs), I can't honestly remember if they was wearing a jacket, they just looked sort of casual if you know what I mean, I can remember if they were wearing a jacket or if it was a shirt or a slip on shirt, or jumper, they just looked causal.
Q:
Yeah. You see you're talking about these kicker boots, did they look new or.......
R: Just worn you know, just sort of they'd been worn a few times.
5.01
Q:
You didn't notice any earrings or anything like that?
R:
No, no, (mumbles).
Q:
Even the tops... I mean you're looking at three people wearing tops, do you remember if they were light tops, dark tops, patterned tops?
R:
I think one of them was a fairly darkish top, cos, when I see em, sort of, when Tony run, they run, and he stopped, and they was just kick him, and he was trying to put his foot up in defence and I think one of them was a dark top, but that's.....
Q:
So if one had a dark top, did the other two have light tops?
5.44
R:
I don't know honestly.... I don't know, it could have been a jumper like mine in the dark you wouldn't know what colour it was would you, you see.
Q:
No.
R:
And I say to you when, what I remember when, when I met sort of Tony, up the town, and then three, blokes came up to us, they sort of, one of them exchanged words with Tony and Tony exchanged words back to em and said, said no or something, and I just said leave em alone and Tony run, so it was if Tony knew they wanted to get him.
Q:
What, were anything already been said beforehand?
R:
Yeah, as if, as if, he'd, he'd, he'd, he had said something to them before as if, it was if Tony knew that they was to get him, cos he started to run, and then they run after him.
6.40
Q:
You formed the impression then that Tony knew them, or certainly knew one of them or more than one?
R:
Yeah, I would...... yeah probably.
Q:
What made you form that impression?
R:
Because, while, while I was thinking, it seems to me that when (mumbles) when they come up to us and said to me something about you had a good kicking, now it’s your tur turn, to Tony, and then Tony said something to them, I think he said 'no', I can't remember what he said, I think he said no though, and laughed, and they run after him, know what I mean? Now to me it seems as if that, that Tony either had done something to them and knew that there was three of them and they was going to get him, for him to run off, if you can understand what I mean?
Q:
Yeah, I see what you say. When they came over, o.k. you say, you said before you at the Employed Exchange, whatever they call it....
R:
Yeah, (mumbles).
Q:
How did you face them, did you face towards the Lattice House, did you face towards Cellar Bar, did you face towards St. Nicholas Chapel, how did you look at them?
7.53
R:
No I was on that corner, I was walking and they come over and I think I was just facing.... I... the Employment Centre was to the left of me, and I was probably facing the Employment Centre my back was in front of the Employment Centre I should say.
8.14
Q:
So back to you would have been facing towards best described as assume a car park, towards Maids Head area, towards Town Centre in other words.
R:
Yeah, yeah, towards the Town Centre like.
Q:
What about.... Tony, where abouts was he facing?
R:
He was probably standing beside me sort of like that, I was standing near.... to him.
Q:
To your right or to your left?
R:
To my left.
Q:
So he was nearest to Gaywood area, to the Church.
R:
Yeah to the Church...
Q:
Whatever you want to describe it as.
Q: I mean if you're got your back to level houses....
R:
Yeah you’re right, yeah, yeah...
Q:
So if he's on your left, then he's going to be towards The Tudor Rose, or St. Anne's Street.
Q:
How far along that street were you, I mean, do you know Ward, Gethen Solicitors...?
R:
On the corner.
Q:
On the corner, well they’ve got a car park haven't they, so, and then you come on to the shingle car park, so that if you were facing, that as you were saying, what would you have looking into, would you have been looking into the gravel park car park by the Tudor Rose, the car park of Ward Gethen or towards the building of Ward Gethen?
R:
I'd say that I was looking up from the building of Ward Gethen and I could see into Town.
3.31
Q:
So you were that far, you were right on the junction?
R:
Yeah.
Q:
Or see the High Street, basically, you went straight along and see the start of the High Street?
R:
Yeah I'm sure.
Q:
Right so you were right on the corner of Tuesday Market.
R:
Sure, sure I was. Because, I mean, they run, Tony, Tony run down, and he was probably stand…by the Tudor Rose is there… yeah? And the gravel car park was there….
Q:
Yes.
R:
Well he probably got to the Tudor Rose when they first started kicking him and they he got away and run out. 10.04
Q:
Which side of the road was he running, the Tudor Rose side or in the middle of the road?
R:
Middle of the road.
Q:
In the middle of the road?
R: Yeah.
Q: So you're saying that he was assaulted first of all.......
R:
In the middle of the road.
Q:
In the middle of the... outside the Tudor Rose?
R:
Yeah.
Q:
He got up, he ran across......
R:
Well yeah, yeah, he got sort a, he was sort of trying to put up some resistance, they kicked him, he got away, and I went across to the gravel car park to get out of the way of it, and they they went across the gravel car park, so I come back then started to walk, you know carry on walking now I see him getting down towards the latter end, you know latter end of the car park.....
Q:
Did he stumble or fall or anything like that?
R:
I weren’t. ....all I see em do was just kicking him and kicking him so they probably kicked him over.
10.48
Q:
How bad a kicking did he get, I mean you saw, in other words what you are saying you saw that two different kicking’s, one outside the Tudor Rose and the one near the Lattice House?
R:
(Mumbles) They kept kicking and kicking and kicking.
Q:
Well I know it's going to be hard for you, o.k., it’s not a very nice thing to have to go through.... how bad was kicking outside the Tudor Rose?
R:
Outside the Tudor Rose... they were just kicking and punching him, but he did put up some resistance.
11.16
Q:
Was he on the floor or was he standing up?
R:
He was struggling, you know, trying, to, kept struggling to be kept up.
Q:
Did you see him hit any of them?
R:
Like I say he was putting up a resistance with his arms trying to push them away.
Q:
But punches, or who was kicking, did you see any of that?
R:
Might have been…
11.34
Q:
What I'm trying to say is it likely that he would have injured his attackers?
R:
Yeah he might... yeah, he might of done, cos his arms and legs, you what I mean he was trying to put up a resistance, he could we have injured his attackers.
Q:
Do you remember... just digressing from that a little while.... you know when you first met Tony and you met in the Wild Fowler, did you?
R:
Yeah.
0:
And Tony weren't feeling too sharp we he?
R:
No
Q:
Is it right in saying he had had a big meal he said.
R:
He said he'd had something to eat, I think he said he might of had chips or something, and he said you shouldn't get into a bath with a full stomach cos it make you... make yer... he sort get, he reckon he kept getting sort of..........(mumbles).
12.22
Q:
Did he have anything else to eat throughout the evening?
R:
No, pretty sure....
Q: Did he say where he'd eaten?
R:
At home.
Q:
That was at home it?
R:
Urn.
Q:
And there's nothing else you can remember? And are you certain that one of those attackers were wearing kicker boots?
R:
Pretty sure, sort of 80 percent sure.
Q:
Can you just try and think about the hair of any of these attackers other than... anything you can think about the hair?
R:
Sort of... one of them had sort of fairly shortish hair at the side, sort of just neat casual hair really.
13.04
Q:
Just like 90 percent of the lads walking around town?
R:
Like, say that again.
Q:
Just like 90 percent of the lads you see walking around the town, these days, because these days generally the younger element the hair is smarter it was say five years ago, whatever.
R:
Yeah.
Q:
Nothing distinctive you can think about?
R:
No
Q:
And you can't think of anymore names at the top of the stairs?
R:
No.
Q:
What made you think about... I know you say you saw something, oh you thought oh I remember one was wearing kicker boots, but, is that the sort of thing that would stick out in your mind?
R:
What it was, when you told me to go back and think, I went back there and I was thinking, trying to run things through my mind, and then, I, I went to the door, I thought that, that's it I be ringing the bell to have a drink of water, waiting for the bloke, what's he called, you know the key man. Policeman, to come anyway, he brought that person in and take his boots off and put them by the door, and that of sort of suddenly hit me that I had seen them boots....
Q:
Similar boots...
R:
Similar boots to that.....
Q:
Have you owned kicker boots before?
R:
Have I owned kicker boots? I've got a pair of kicker boots, brown dark brown.
Q:
Those are similar to yours, except the colour of them, the ones you were thinking about the assailant or the attacker wore were light brown/tan and yours were dark brown, other than that they were identical, are they?
R:
Yeah, these were more, like I say, a climbing boot, sort of thing.
14.54
Q:
What thick sole, thick rubber sole?
R: Yeah. Yeah. Like sometimes you see em round town, like with camp boots on don’t you, with the socks over the trousers, you know what I mean?
Q:
Yeah know what you mean.
R:
Like that, sort of boots.
15.14
Q:
But generally, that is still just to the top of the ankle.
R:
Top of the ankle yeah.
Q:
Ok can you think of anything else?
Q:
Not at this stage, no.
Q. Anything else you want to say?
R:
I was just trying to remember.
Q:
If there is anything you do remember you'll get in contact with us.
R:
It’s like last night, I rang a bell and as soon as I rang.....
Q:
That's what you've got to do. Did you want to make a Witness Statement?
R:
No, not really.
Q:
I will again serve you with another one of these notices then you'll have a collection, O.k. There’s nothing you want to say? You don't want to make a written statement? R:
No.
Q
Served with you with a notice, that's it then
The time is 9.05, and I will terminate the interview.