My 1st Interview

NAME:
ADDRESS:
MICHAEL ANDREW. TEALE
NORFOLK POLICE HEADQUARTERS STATION


AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 29 13011962 OCCUPATION: LORRY DRIVER
Who states: - This statement consisting of pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.
DATED: 020391
M A TEALE (SIGNED)
NORFOLK CONSTABULARY
PERSON INTERVIEWED: Michael Andrew TEALE PLACE OF INTERVIEW: King's Lynn Police Station
DATE OF INTERVIEW: 2nd March 1991 TIME COMMENCED: 1707 hrs. TIME CONCLUDED: 1741 hrs. TAPE REFERENCE NO: D(a)421/91 MASTER TAPE NO: One INTERVIEWING OFFICER: DS PETER NEWTON/DC FROST OTHER PERSONS PRESENT: Alan CHARLTON SIGNATURE OF OFFICER PREPARING RECORD: Mrs. J. THOMPSON.
DATE OF INTERVIEW: TIME COMMENCED: TAPE REFERENCE NO: MASTER TAPE NO:
This interview is being tape recorded. The time is 507pm. on the 2nd March 1991. We are in interview room number 1 at King's Lynn Police Station and I am Detective Sergeant Peter NEWTON of King's Lynn C.I.D. Detective Constable FROST of King's Lynn C.I.D....... Introduce yourself please......

Michael Andrew TEALE......
And your address.......

37 George Street, King's Lynn....
And your date of birth please.......
13.1.1962... : '
Alan CHARLTON, solicitor....

Fine. I'll tell you at the end of this interview you will be given this notice which explains to you and your solicitor what happened to the tapes etc. Okay. I'll say that you do not have to say anything unless you wish to do so but what you say may be given in evidence. Do you understand that?...
Yes....
And you're happy there's just the four of us in this room.....
Yes....
Q. 1.07
Okay. Do you understand why you've been arrested....
R.
Yes....
Q.
And what is that for......

Suspicion of murder...
Q.
Right. You understand that happened in the early hours of this morning.
R.
Yes
Q.
Is there is anything you want to tell us about what happened yesterday.
Let's start from square one. What's your profession. What do you do for a living.....
R.
I'm a heavy goods driver and also I work in the Cellar Bar as a doorman...
Q.
Only the Cellar Bar or anywhere else....
R. .
Just the Cellar Bar....
Q.
And who do you work for....
R.
Erm, Neil WILLIAMSON....
Q.
Okay, and when do you work there, every night or does it vary...
R.
Er, Fridays and Saturdays....
Q.
Only.....
R.
Yes, I did work Thursday once when they asked me to...
Q.
And do you always work with the same people as a doorman.
R.
Generally, it's usually the same people....
Q.
And who are they....
R.
Rod MOORE, lan DIGGINS I believe his name is, erm there's somebody called
Rory, I can't, I don't know his surname, erm and another bloke called
John, but neither of them two were on last night...
Q.
Okay, so who did you work with last night then as doorman...
R.
Rod MOORE and lan DIGGINS...
Q.
And the bar staff I take it were just the normal. Who runs, who is the owner, who runs the Cellar Bar....
R.
I believe Neil WILLIAMSON is the manager....
Q.
He's, the young Neil, is it two Neils, is it, or his dad lan is it....
R.
His dad's lan.
Q.
So Neil's the...
R.
Manager.
Q.
He looks after it.
R.
Yes...
Q.2.39
Can you tell us what happened last night you know when you went to work and such like...
R.
Erm. I was in the Cellar Bar. I know this chap, I didn't know him by name and yet I know his wte. They introduced themselves to me a few weeks ago when they used to come up. I believe they know my brother-in-law.
Q. 3.04
Who's your brother-in-law.....
R.
He's Willy THOMPSON....
Q.
Right.
R.
I got on alright with em, and late last night I believe prior to any incident, there's a television fell on one' of em as he was getting up there was no trouble, it was an accident, and that was that. Erm, shortly afterwards, there was an occasion where erm, whats his name. Tony is it...
Q.
Yeh, the lad that's dead. Did you know him as Tony....
R.
No.
Q.
No.
Q.
Do you know who we were referring to....
R.
Yeh. Erm, he was, I was stood talking to a girl. Hay ley GARRIGAN, and I see a lad throw his arms back, this is Tony, and he was face to face with another lad and he was by the expression on his face, I couldn't hear what he was saying, but they was having some sort of argument. I went over to him, I grabbed him by the throat and took him outside. Erm, I kept hold of his throat outside and told him that if he wanted to do anything he did it outside and not where I was working. He I let him go, he argued, he tried to get through the door. I hit him with the back of my hand....
Q. 4.33
Where did you hit him...
R.
On about the nose I think...
Q.
With the back of your hand...
R.
Back of my hand....
Q.
Back of your right hand....
R.
Yeh.
Q.
Yeh.
R-
Erm, and I think at that time there was a boy HAMMOND stood there. I don't know him personally I just know him by his name as HAMMOND. He's a doorman somewhere else I think, I'm not sure. I went back into the club.I was talking to Hayley GARRIGAN again. Erm, Karl SxxxxxxN cams in and said there's some trouble outside. I went outside and I saw that Tony was on the stairs trying to get back down the stairs. He seemed to be having some trouble with people on the stairs. I let him in through the door and tried to calm people down that was on the stairs. I shouted some sort of abuse at em. Erm, I think Tony was seeing Rod MOORE, then his mate, who I know him by as Squirrel, erm, was concerned about Tony. I said, I'm not. He thought I was going hit him. I said I'm not going to hit him. You know he's not doing nothing wrong. I even walked out the door with my arm around him, went up the stairs. Tony, er Squirrel still thought there was going to be trouble. We got into an argument. I grabbed him. I head butted him and I punched him and that was it....
Q. 5.53
Did he hit you at all. Squirrel, is that SEWELL....
R.
I don't know...
Q.
What does he look like. Squirrel....
R.
He's a stocky lad, dark hair....
Q.
Do you know if he's in here....
R.
I haven't seen him...
Q.
You don't know. I think. Do you remember what he was wearing...
R.
No, I can't remember.No.
R.
Dark hair, stocky I know that and taller than me, the other lad.
Q. 6.15
And this is Tony's mate...
Q.
Did he hit you, sorry, did he hit you...
R. ,
No.
Q.
Did he hit anybody. Squirrel...
R.
Not that I was aware of, no....
Q-
And what happened after that....
R.
Rod MOORE separated us, told me to calm down. I went downstairs back into the bar. He got me a drink. I was a bit wound up. I had a couple of mouthfuls of it. I said to him I was going to walk Hayley home and I started walking, I was across the Market Place with her and then I see another lad that was with them two earlier on. I asked him where Squirrel was. He said he'd gone home. I said where was that. He said Columbia Way, and then I just ran. I thought I was gonna run after him. Erm, I ran by Lloyds Bank, cause that was where the lad was when I spoke him near the cashpoint I think. I ran down the back of Lloyds Bank, erm towards the Lattice. There was a police car with Tony and there was a crowd of people there and I kept, er. The officer said something to me, I can't remember what it was, but I said I was looking for his mate. I carried on running and there was a police car with Rod MOORE in it I think.They stopped me. He said, where are you going. I said I'm going home. They said wait about. I said, no I'm going home and er carried on running, enn then I think maybe an officer must have got out the car, cause then there was somebody chasing me. A police car tried to stop me, I jumped a wall, hid behind a thing but I was tired, I'd been running about from the Market Place to which is near George Street where I live and I was panting a lot, so it obvious he could hear me behind a tree, so I just corns out...
Q. 8.21
Why did you run away and hide then...
R.
I was just thinking of going hone.....
Q.
You're saying that you only hit Tony once is that right...
R.
Tony.
Q.
Yes....
R.
I hit him with the back of my hand yes....
Q.
Just once...
R.
Yes....
Q. 8.37
Did he have any injury, did he bleed or anything...
R.
I don't believe he did. I went back in the club and then I shut the door on him I think, went back in the club...
Q. 8.47
When, when this, something happened downstairs. Did you hit him downstairs at all...
R.
I never, I never hit him, apart frcm when they took him outside...
Q.
Did you hit anybody downstairs at all that evening or you know through the period you were working down downstairs...
R.
Erm, not that I can remember. Only Squirrel on the stairs at the top of the stairs.....
Q. 9.07
I gather there's a camera somewhere where there is a monitor somewhere behind the bar....
R
Yeh.
Q.9.12
What, where does that actually show onto this camera...
R.
The bottom of the stairs...
Q
Which is as you're in, you come through the top don't you and you go down the stairs and it's just on the bottom on the stairs.
R.
It's outside the door pointing towards the stairs...
Q-
And how far up the stairs could it see...
R.
Not a great deal....
Q. 9.34
And when....
R.
I think if you stood at the bottom of the stairs that would catch your head, you know what I mean, so that projection...
Q.
Probably not mine, I've probably got all of mine. Yeh. Okay. So, you insist that you only hit Tony the once...
R.
Yes.
Q.
But you hit Squirrel. He reckons you head butted him a few times.... ,
R.
I remember head butting him and I punched him on the nose I think....
Q.
I see you've got a mark on your own forehead, how was that caused....
R.
That was when I head butted him....
Q.
Squirrel..,.
R.
Yes....
Q. 10.10
Who else was around when all this was happening....
R.
There was a lot of people....
Q-
Were there....
R.
Rod MOORE was there, cause he, I think he tried to stop me. Erm, there was loads of people I don't really know.
Q.
Can you think of some names...
Q.
Take your time Micky....
Q.
You appreciate the importance of this. As you know that lad is found and he's dead, round the back near the Lattice House. Just try and think who else was about....
R.
Oh Karl SxxxxxxN must have been there cause he came in and told me there was some trouble. The two HAMMONDS.....
Q. 10.49
That's Wayne and Jay yes....
R.
Yes,. I think they would have been there
Q.
Wayne's got the long hair and Jay's got the tattoo on his forehead hasn't he.....
R.
I don't know, I know em both as HAMMONDS. Erm, loads of people. I know there was a boy Ricky there, but I don't know his surname. He uses the Cellar Bar a lot. Erm, can't really remember who was there....
Q.11.18
See some people say after you, you'd hit Squirrel, you came down and you were sort of pretty hyped up, you seemed quite pleased with yourself, would that be the case...
R.
Not really. I went back into the bar. I want pleased with meself, I would just angry....
Q.
Wild. Do you tend to go a little bit over the top on occasions, do you think...
R
I tell you, I mean I don't know. You can ask anybody else, but this is what I'd say is a fair thing of roe. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt and they can do whatever they like as long as they're not violent. Do you know what I mean and I’ll stop them being violent and that's all. On this occasion....
Q. 11.59
So why did you head, head butt Squirrel then, what was he doing to make you want to do that....
R.
I don't know, there was something happened on the stairs. He just confronted me....
Q. 12.11
This, there must have been something that triggered you to get into a state like that Micky....
Q.
Well let's take who was at the top of the stairs. Was, we'll throw some names in. There was Karl was there, which is Karl SxxxxxxN was there...
R.
SxxxxxxN, yes...
Q.
Was Bobby there. Bobby HILLS, was he there, what about....
R.
I didn't see Bobby HILLS.....
Q.
Paul FELLOWS...
R.
No...
Q.
He wasn't there or you don't know him.....
R
I didn't see, I know Paul FELLOWS, I didn't see him....
Q.
Paul is it, Paul FELLOWS.
R.
Oh Paul FELLOWS, yes, sorry he might have been there....
Q. 12.42.
Yeh. What does he look like, Paul....
R.
He's stocky, white bloke, dark hair, shaved on the
sides. He'd have been with Karl, yeh....
Q.
Is he a Lynn lad...
R.
Yeh.
Q.
Has he got a nickname at all...
R.
Fez.
Q.
Fez, as in the hat fez.
R.
Yes.
Q-
Is that because of his hair is it,....
R.
I don't know (inaudible)
Q.1300
Who was, who was the girl that fell or who was pushed down the stairs...
R.
That was before I got out there. I remember someone saying...
Q.
Do you know who it was by the way.
R.
No.
Q.
No.
R.
No. I remember somebody saying about that now you mention it, but that
was before I got out there.....
Q. 13.15
Sort of how long before....
R.
I think. I'm not sure if she was getting led away by somebody as I come to the downstairs door.
Q. 1321
So that was immediately before you go out there then....
R.
Yeh I'd say....
Q.
And you've not idea who that was....
R.
No.

Q-
Did you see her or....
R.
I remember a girl going up the stairs, whether that was the girl that got knocked down. I remember somebody saying about that....
Q.
But you've no idea who that was.
R.
No.....
Q.
So who would know who that was when he was at the top of the stairs, that would know who that was do you think. Would Karl know who it was....
R.
I don't know. I mean there was a lot of people there, maybe they'd be able to tell you who else was there, I don't know.....
Q.13.54
Had Karl been inside the Cellar Bar..
R.
Yeh.
Q.
Do you know what point he left...
R.
No...
Q.
So this incident had happened with you. Squirrel and Tony being kicked out right, after you had hit Squirrel where was Tony.....
R.
I don't know....
Q.
And the minute you had hit Squirrel did you come straight downstairs or did you hang about up the top...
R.
That happened downstairs and I went straight back inside...
Q.
What happened downstairs....
R.
When I took Squirrel out by, not Squirrel, Tony out by the throat,...
Q.
Yes....
R.
I hit him with the back of my hand, there was one of the HAMMONDS there then, I remember that, then I went back inside....
Q.
Okay and after you hit Squirrel, did you come straight back downstairs...
R.
Within a matter of a minute at the most I was out there..
Q. 14.46
And did you see Squirrel again after that time....
R.
No.
Q.
Did you see Tony again after that time....
R.
No.
Q.
Other than the obvious...
R.
No. He was above us. He was sort of......
Q.
Yeh but you did see him once more after that time didn't you when you saw him laying on the ground....
R.
Yeh, yeh.
Q.
Did you see him at any time since you caning back into the bar having hit Squirrel and when you saw him laying on the path....
R.
No.
Q. 15.14
There's soms suggestion that you did in fact head butt, er Tony....
R.
No I never....
Q.
Are you sure.... ^
R.
Yeh...
Q.
Did you cause him any injuries....
R.
No. I tell you I hit him with the back of my hand and like I said earlier I knew the lads, I was a bit pissed off that they had played up in there and that was it....
Q.
So the playing up, was that purely that this Tony I take it is a bit of a loud chap is he.....
R.
Yes, but he's alright...
Q.
Yes. And you think he was squaring up to somebody or....
R.
Yeh he was....
Q. 15.46
Do you know any idea who that was...
R.
No, he had his back to me...
Q.
Can you remember what he was wearing or anything about him. Who he was with....
R
I know he was taller than Tony I would say. Erm, brown hair, but I didn't actually see him I don't think....
Q. 16.01.
You don't know who he was...
R.
No.
Q.
Did you see him after Tony was ejected.....
R.
I tell you this happened so fast....
Q.
Had you had much to drink...
R.
No....
Q.
No. Do you normally drink much when you're working....
R.
We're not allowed to....
Q.
No, but I know damn well, I've been there when the boys have had a drink, not necessarily there but other, other places and you do have a drink don't you....
R.
You're allowed a couple of pints yes...
Q.
But you hadn't had a great deal to drink. Are you certain...
R.
Yeh.....
We're just going through it again Mick, I know it's a bit tiresome. How many times do you think you head butted Squirrel...
R.
I don't know. I thought just the once and I remember hitting him once..
Q. 16.52
You hit him once, did he hit you at all....
R.
I don't know, I don't think so...
Q.
Did you see him hit anyone....
R.
No....
Q.
When you got him by the, I think you got him by the throat didn't you and pushed him up the, where was he half way down the stairs or bottom of the stairs or up the top.....
R.
That was near the top of the stairs I think....
Q.
You got him by the throat, then you pushed him up the stairs and then head butted him. Now did he hit the ground at all. Did you drag him' along.
R.
No.
Q.
How would he have got injuries to his hand, either of his hands...
R.
He had an injury to his hand early on in the evening...
Q.
Did he....
R.
Yes. He came up to me, I don't smoke thanks. He came up and apparently he'd had some sort of taddoo with a tall blond haired lad with a parting in the middle. Said he'd hit him in the eye and he'd done his hand in.
He cone up to us on the door and asked that and I went round looking for him but there was nobody of that description.
Q. 17.50
When was that then...
R.
That was earlier on....
Q.
And where did he have this fight...
R.
I don't say a fight. I'll tell you who he asked about it. He came to me on the door and said about it...
Q.
When was.this roughly....
R.
This would have been about half eleven, twelve o'clock. I know it was earlier, say an hour really than this...
Q.
Was that roughly, when, let me try and think, that would have. He'd been in there before then hadn't he. He must have gone out or something....
R.
Squirrel....
Q.
Yeh...
R.
No, he'd been in all night...
Q.
Yeh, but who had the injuries to the hand...
R.
Squirrel...
Q.
Yeh. So where did he have this.....
R.
This happened in the toilets....
Q.
Oh I see....
R.
And I'll tell, and then when I went looking for him and he didn't know who he was, he said that the boy FOUNTAIN would know who it was. I'm sure he asked Andy FOUNTAIN....
Q. 18.47
Andy......
R.
Andy FOUNTAIN Chips his name is. He asked him who he was. I think it was him he asked and he didn't know or he said he'd gone or something....
Q.
So Squirrel had a fight, he told you in the toilets in the Cellar Bar...
F.
Something had happened, I don't know if it was a fight or he said he'd been hit. He kept asking me if he had a black eye. He said he'd been hit in the eye and his hand was swollen...
Q. 19.13
Did he show you the hand...
R.
Yeh....
Q.
And what injuries did you see to that hand....
R.
That was swollen...
Q.
It was swollen then....
R.
Yeh...
Q.
That's a definite is it....
R.
Yeh, cause I squeezed it....
Q.
Yeh.. You shook hands with him and hurt him....
R.
Well you know he come up and said you know and I just sort of, but like I say he did ask, I think it was Andy FOUNTAIN or one of that, one of them, if he, he said he'd knew who it was.....
Q.
Andy would know who it was....
R.
Yes.
Q.
He had the fight with...
R.
Yeh....
Q.
Do you know what it was over...
R.
No.....
Q.
Karl was there wasn't he, Karl SxxxxxxN....
R.
Karl SxxxxxxN yes....
Q. 19.56
Do you know his ex-girlfriend, do you know Joanne...
R.
Yes....
Q.
Was Joanne there last night....
R.
I didn't see her. Em, I see her earlier on yes sorry she was there but
I didn't see her near the end....
Q.
Do you know where Joanne lives...
R.
I've got an idea.
Q.
Roughly.
R.
If she's, is she living with her parents...
Q-
I don't honestly know....
R.
I think she lives down Methuen Avenue....
Q.
Does she.... '
R.
Somewhere Off Wootton Road....
Q.
Do you know the name. Her other name.....
R-
Em. I'll think of it, I've heard it before, erm, not off the
top of me head, but if I heard it I'd know it.
Q. 20.40
She was in there last night. So we get the right one, does she work at the Tudor Rose....
R.
I don't know....
Q.
The bar maid....
R-
I think she works at Decorative Sleeves during the day. She's a blonde girl.....
Q. 20.54
I don't know I haven't seen her. But she, there was a girl called Joanne there who works as a bar maid at the Tudor Rose, which I think is the ex-girlfriend of Karl is it......
R.
That's right, yeah, they used to live together....
Q.
Yeah.
R.
Yeah...
Q.
Now she was down there with two blokes, do you remember seeing them...
R.
I only briefly, I only briefly saw them when I was behind the bar.....
Q. 21.16
Yeah, now they left somewhere after you'd come down with the blood on you, you and Rod had come down with the blood. They left...
R.
Yeah.
Q.
Then they went up onto the Market Place, then those two lads that she was with were attacked as well, but that was by, we believe by some one who's already been msntioned, we know who did that. Did you hear anything about that...
R.
No.....
Q.
You obviously didn't see them get into any argument with anybody, that's what I was looking for, whether there was another argument....
R.
I'll tell you what I say on the stairs there was a lot of people there and it was.....
Q.
We need to know who that girl was that fell was either fell or was pushed down the. stairs. Very important.
Q.
Any idea who would know that.
R.
No. All you can do is ask the people that were there...
Q.
Ask the people that were there, that's right...
Q.
Is there anyone else that you can think of who was outside when you were having the scuffle with Squirrel or even with GOREMAN. Anyone that you can think of who you haven't mentioned...
R.
No.
Q. 22.45
It's quite important we know who's at the top of the stairs, you understand that because obviously, if you didn't do it, then from what you're saying when you went downstairs, had a couple of sips of beer, then what was the length of time do you think having come downstairs, got your pint drunk or poured out, had a couple of sips and then decided to go after Squirrel, I mean...
R.
A matter of minutes.....
Q.
Well yeah but matter could be anything.....
R.
Not five minutes.
Q.
Not as long as five minutes....
R.
No, no....
Q. 23.14
What more likely....
R.
A couple of minutes, I had a couple of drinks. Rod told me to calm down I think. He paid me my money and that was it. I said, I think I said to
Hayley that I'd either walk her hems or get her a taxi or something...
Q.
Yeah. Hayley...
R.
GARRIGAN..
Q.
And where does Hayley live...
R.
Em, Swiss Terrace, No. 4. Swiss cottage or whatever it is
Q.
Yes.
R.
Yeah, off Tennyson Avenue...
Q.
So you walked with Hayley up Paige Stair Lane, onto the Tuesday Market
Place and where were you walking, what direction across the Market Place..
R.
Towards Lloyds Bank...
Q.
So towards the beginning of the High Street diagonally across the Tuesday
Market Place. Yes...
R.
Yeah...
Q. 23.58
Now how far across there was it when you saw Karl, not Karl, you saw a lad called Robert didn't you. Robert WHITE...
R.
I don' t know his name..
Q.
Was he walking with anybody...
R.
By himself as I remember....
Q.
Was he...
R.
I think he was, yeah, if that's Squirrel's mate was it...
Q.
Well there was a lad that was Squirrel and what did you say to him.
R.
I asked him where Squirrel was.
Q.
And what did he say...
R.
He said he'd gone home. I asked him where hone was and he said somewhere off Columbia Way, I can't remember where. I thought if I run I'll catch him, before he even gel-s to Columbia Way...
Q.
And what were you going to do if you caught him...
R.
I don't know.
Q
Have another go I suppose
R.
Probably...
Q.
Yes. But what about Tony, were you going to have a go at Tony if you'd found him...

R.
No, no. I even ran past him when he was laid dawn. I mean I don't know what had happened to him...
Q. 24.48
But when you went past him, how many, were there a lot of people there when you reached him...
R.
Yeah, there was a crowd round him you know, maybe four or five people and the police car...
Q.
The police car was already there...
R.
Yeah...
Q.
And is that the first time you saw Tony since he left the Cellar Bar...
R.
Yeah..
Q.
Did you recognise any of the men or the group (inaudible) policeman there..
R.
Yeah.
Q.
Did you recognise any of the group around there.
R.
No.
Q.
I've just burnt my finger. Okay so you got, then you were asked to stop, you said no sod it I'm going home and you legged it...
R.
Yes..
Q.
And that is right is it...
R.
When I was asked to stop the first time, when the police car that was with
Tony, I said something about I'm going to see his mate or something, then when Rod, I think Rod turned up in a police car, then said to them I was going to go home. The police officer must have known me cause he spoke to me by my first name. I didn't really stop to see who it was...
Q. 26.00
What was the atmosphere like when you were, I mean you were having this fight with Squirrel, right and you told us about what happened to Tony, what was the atmosphere like with regards to the other members of the public that are outside that Cellar Bar door. Did you take any notice...
R.
All I remember was when I first came, when I came out Karl SQMERTON had a word with me. Tony was on the stairs trying to get down and it looked like he'd been hit. He come in the club, I didn't stop him getting in because from what I saw he was getting hit, so then I stayed on the door and had a word with the people that were on the stairs, I can't remember who they were and then by then Squirrel had come out. He thought I was going to hit Tony. I left with my arm round Tony.I walked up the stairs with him. Squirrel kept going on about not hitting him, then...
Q. 27.02
Is it right you said something like don't tell me how to do my job or something like that...
R.
Yeah. That's when I grabbed hold of him.
Q.
You say you thought Tony was being hit, who was hitting Tony...
R.
I don't know. There was a lot of people on the stairs and it looked like he was trying to get down through em to stop getting hit...
Q.
Does it look as though that he'd upset someone or was it ...
R.
All I know is Karl SQMERTQN come in and said something about there was trouble outside with the lad that I'd thrown out...
Q.
You don't know what caused that trouble...
R.
No....

Q.
It would be nice to know who else was on them stairs. Because you say you thought Tony was being hit by somebody there...
R.
Yeah.
Q. 27.47
Can you think god do try, who was at the top of those stairs who could have hit him.
R.
I tell you the stairs were packed, there was loads of people there and somebody must have seen what was going on...
Q.
This is the hardship, because if you don't know who was there, what chance have we got...
R.
Honestly for me, that was so quickly happening, you just can't sort of take notes of names and that but I am sure that boy Ricky, he uses the snooker club a lot, I don't know his surname...
Q.
Ricky. How old a lad...
R.
In his early twenties....
Q.
Ricky.
R.
Yes...
Q.
And he...
R.
I think he was there abouts cause I see him....
Q.
Any idea where he's from...
R.
He' s from Lynn....
Q. 28.32
So we've got Ricky...
R.
I mean the people that were there would know who was on the stairs. I sort of just got there, as I say Squirrel come by me....
Q.
There was Paul you say, Paul FELLCWS was there....
R.
I think so yeah...
Q.
So all we've got really is Ricky, Karl SxxxxxxN, Paul FELLCWS...
R.
I mean there's a lot of girls and that there as well you know.
Q.
Who was there...
R.
I don't know, but as it was people were leaving, that was going out time sort of thing...
Q.
But why do you think somebody was hitting Tony, has anybody said...
R.
It just looked like he was getting hit. You know what I mean, there was a lot of movement on the stairs sort of coining down and him in the front...
Q. 29.12
He was sort as if backing off...
R.
He was coming down the stairs and there was a lot of people on the stairs coming down as well...
Q.
What after him. Was that the impression you got...
R.
That was the impression I got...
Q.
They were chasing him rather than just And that was why he come in the door and I didn't stop him coming in the door.
Q.
Have there been any other problems with Tony down the Cellar Bar that you know of any other instances with either him or Squirrel...
R.
Ages ago, well ages, I saw weeks ago, there was someat where somebody said that Squirrel or somebody was going hit them or whatever or hit one of their mates...
Q.
Do you know who that was or anything...
R.
No.
Q. 29.47.
But Squirrel you reckon, sorry...
R.
See these lads and I grabbed Squirrel then and told him that there wouldn't be no fighting if I was working. I mean these. Squirrel and
Tony, I mean they used to speak to me every week, you know, only cause they know Willy THOMPSON and you know I just, they weren't my mates but
you know...
Q.
They're people you speak to...
R.
Yeah. I mean I'd sort of spend ten minutes chatting to them maybe of an evening, but like I say the tele got smashed, they weren't nobody thrown out or anything, he said it was an accident....
Q.
Well everybody says that, nobody's arguing....
R.
You know and that was that and thats how it was tret. Its not as if there was anything between anybody sort of.....
Q. 30.24
What does Ricky look like....
R.
He's a short stocky lad, he's got a couple of teeth missing I think...
Q.
What front teeth...
R.
Yeah. He used to go out with Donna PURPLE, so she'll know, if you know Donna PURPLE...
Q.
Where's she from...
R.
From King's Lynn...
Hayley GARRIGAN will tell you Ricky's name I think,but as I say he was there.
Q.
Hayley...
R.
GARRIGAN....
Q.
Is it GARRAGAN.
R.
IGAN.
Q.
IGAN. Where does she live are you saying. Swiss Terrace.
R.
Yeah, number 4, near the Mailings...
Q.
So she'll know who Ricky is will she.-...
R.
Yeah, she'll probably be able to tell you if anybody else was there I don't know. She wasn't actually out on the door, you know what I mean. I was talking to her and I left her to go outside, but whether she see anybody about I know don't.
Q. 31.24
So we really need to speak to Hay ley. Is she on the 'phone. Do you know her number off the top of you head....
R.
760349.
Q.
So we can speak to Hayley and she'll be no problem, she'll...
R.
She knows who Ricky is...
Q.
So to get it right, what you're saying basically is that because Tony was squaring up to somebody else who you don't know, why did you decide to eject Tony and not the other feller...
R.
I just see him, he was the one that. I don't know if he dropped a glass or something but I remember him. Something drew me to the way, if it was a glass or something, he had his fist back like that and he was, and you could see he was like shouting, but the bloke was stood right next to him.. I couldn't see what the other bloke was doing, he just had his back to me, so I just grabbed Tony...
Q. 32.14
How many people were in the club at that stage...
R.
Not very many really...
Q
Do you remember who was downstairs at that time....
R.
D.J. Bar staff, erm.
Q.
Not many...
R.
No, there weren't that many people. I was talking to Hayley GARRIGAN near the, where the D.J. was and that was sort of emptying...
Q.
Does Hayley work do you know....
R.
Yes she works in the hospital...
Q.
What shift work...
R.
No, part-time, in the Path Lab sort of thing....
Q.
So she's not likely to be at work this evening is she....
R.
No.
Q.
And then, so you hit Tony just the once with the back of your hand because he was being lippy basically...
R.
Yes....
Q.
Yes, and then you came back downstairs and that was it....
R.
That was at the bottom of the stairs...
Q.
That was at the bottom of the stairs, that was the end...
R.
That was outside the door...
Q. 33.10
He was kicked out yes...
R.
Yes.
Q.
Then he, the next thing you know he is coming back down, you let him in cause you got the impression that other people are chasing him and having a go at him. You then put your arm round him and take him back out, its then...
R-
I tell you what I had my arm on his shoulder like that and we just walked up...
Q.
And then you have Squirrel giving you a bit of verbal thinking you're picking on his mate...
R.
Yes, yes...
Q.
And you end up with a row with him and you end up head butting him and...
R-
Yeah...
Q.
Now you say that Squirrel had a fight or he told you that he had a fight
earlier on. Did he have any facial marks at all that you saw....
R.
Well he kept saying have I got a black eye, so I don't know....
Q. 33.45
Did he have any cuts or anything that you could see....
R.
I did't see any. No.
Q.
Cause I'm going to tell you now he has got an injury over his right eye, I think there are four or five stitches in there....

R.
That was probably me...
Q.
Yeah, well I think if there were none...
R.
There weren't any earlier. All I know is he said he thought he had a black eye and his hand was swollen...
Q.
But he never really had a go at you at all. He never had a go...
R.
No.
Q.
He didn't hit you....
R.
No.
Q. 34.11
Cause I mean there's no doubt I mean both his hands
are swollen... .
R.
Yeah...
Q.
Okay. Well that's it for now. Is there anything you wanted to say.
Anything you wanted to say....
Q.
No, I mean there's going to be probably something else to ask Micky later on but at the moment I' think we've covered all we want to cover.
Q.
Okay. Anything else. Do you want to make a written statement...
R
No, you've got everything as I remember it...
Q.
Okay, I'll serve you with the notice as explained at the beginning of the tape. Do you want that Mr. CHARLTON...
R,.
I'll take that.

Q. 34.43
The time is now, can you get up their Jackie and turn that off.
Q.
Yes, get it right...
Q.
Is five fortyone and we'll terminate the interview.

M A TEALE SIGNED

STATEMENT TAKEN
PLACE:
TIME: DATE: 020391
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE: